When it comes to people like Peterson, there are always good and bad aspects.
Whatever influence he has over people, I don't think it's bad. It makes people think introspectively, and often times grow.
Of course he's half fraud. But then, damn-near everyone is if you drill deep enough.
Everyone who is in the public eye, as much as Peterson, will express different points of view over time -- even for same topic. He will be nailed on any variation from the version that a particular listener first heard.
I say he's leaving the world a better place if for no other reason, giving a bunch of fatherless men, something to strive towards. And he is constantly referring to Jesus as the ultimate man to emulate. That's not a bad thing.
I think he's just one of those people who, might always, be stuck in "I have to literally rationalize everything" mode. Some people are like that. Many people who are like that are bitter and angry. Lashing out at anything that questions their lack of faith. He's not like that.
Jordan Peterson deserves great credit for maintaining his cool while talking to the deranged woke. Kudos to him for trying to defy the system from within.
Treat him as a guru? Heck no! I attempted to read the 12 Rules and could not finish. Each chapter started with a fairly reasonable, but banal, platitude but by the end he was gibbering like a character in an H.P. Lovecraft novel who had met the Old Gods. Not exactly uplifting.
"Well, listen here, Cthulhu! It's not entirely obvious to me that the stars are right whatsoever! I've read the Necronomicon and all of the literature; it's bloody clear, bucko! The Elder Sign is a... [folds hands, stares up and to the right for an uncomfortably long period of time] an epistemological, archetypal representation of the ego's Oedipal desire locked away deep in the sunken, non-Euclidian R'lyeh of the id. Jung understood the shadow self over Innsmouth and the intrinsic, symbolic power of the FISH PEOPLE. So... "
Thank you! I put way too much thought into cobbling together trash memes, so it means a lot when someone actually gets what I was going for. It took me longer than I care to admit to find a suitable sad ‘Thulhu pic and then smash it together with a suitably vituperative shot of JP.
I turned on Peterson due to how he responded to the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearing and then to fraudvirus. When Kavanaugh was being accused of being a rapist during his Supreme Court hearings, Jordan Peterson — a man who claims to be an expert at resisting mob mentality and of the Soviet dissident Alexander Solzhenitzyn - tweeted “If confirmed Kavanaugh should step down.” When Canada rolled out the COVID vaccine mandates, instead of resisting Peterson gave in and got the shot, then later regretted it (“you’d have to kill me first” to get the booster, he tweeted). Then he cried publicly about it, multiple times.
I could've written a whole second half about his absurd theories of conservatism- but to be honest I just wanted to get this thought out since I hadn't seen anyone articulate it, but plenty of people have dunked on him for not really being on the Right.
Seems Peterson is confused, and uncertain though he likes to sound certain. I've nothing to say but good luck to him, hope he reaches the next point in his journey. To many of us God is all those things he says but more; he is the Saviour, the Father and the Guide who sacrificed himself but more than that has always a helping hand to guide us through life. He's not a vague concept but a concrete one. One whom we need only read the Bible and pray the rosary to find.
I had a fair bit of time for Jordan Peterson, especially on psychology. He's probably a good gateway role model for the lost and wandering, but anyone who settles on JP as a final goal self-imposes a cap on my respect for them
Been saying this for years every time he comes up: he’s a virtuous pagan. Good man, has done a lot of good, but he’s not fully with us nor is he a leader for those already in the Church
Vox Day wrote the definitive intellectual take-down of Peterson years ago. Peterson is a narcissistic and deeply disturbed man who should not be a model for any man regardless of how many views his Biblical lectures get.
I find it exceedingly frustrating that Peterson presents himself as a spokesperson for Christianity, and even goes on atheist shows to talk about it. Yet he regularly reduces faith into psychological/jungian jargon, and is not actually a Christian. All I can hear through it all is God/goodness/faith is just living up to his idealized view of liberalism.
I picked up Maps of Meaning when he was first becoming popular. It quickly became clear that the man was doing an "extended Ted Talk" of pop-Jungian psychology. He "sounded good" but you got no actual meaning out of him. Maps is terrible, and it really shows his weirdness off.
We've discussed Jordan Peterson many times before, but I never deeply grasped your critique of him. Thanks for writing this, I understand your position far better now, and I feel I have shifted towards it
Like Peterson but as a human he can only handle so much exposure before his flaws emerge. As far as I can tell he is surprisingly decent for all that. Most people are pretending they were braver during COVID-19 than they really were, including me. I listen to his podcast to find out if he's found someone interesting to talk to :)
If you are interested in pursuing religion deeper you need a different guide... and he is not a deep political thinker. And taking dietary advice from him is silly.
I still want to keep an eye on him though. He trips over interesting ideas and people.
While I respect and appreciate a lot of his work, he has one major blind spot: he's a committed evolutionist. It poisons the foundation of his entire intellectual framework.
He's spent thousands of hours speaking and writing about psychology and related topics from the worldview of evolution and millions of years. His perceptive logic in other areas is shaded out by his complete failure to apply even the most basic critical thinking to the theory of evolution, a theory so mathematically and scientifically absurd it can't survive even the most cursory examination.
He seems to realize that pushing the beginning of time back 14 billion years with the Big Bang theory doesn't actually answer the question of how the universe began.
But he's so invested into the theory of evolution as an explanation for life, biology, and psychology, that he's unable to commit to a clean break with materialism and acknowledge God the Creator.
That's why he has to tiptoe around the edge of the metaphysical while invariably retreating back into the Enlightenment materialism at every challenge, even while claiming to acknowledge the real-world failure of Enlightenment materialism as a concept.
When it comes to people like Peterson, there are always good and bad aspects.
Whatever influence he has over people, I don't think it's bad. It makes people think introspectively, and often times grow.
Of course he's half fraud. But then, damn-near everyone is if you drill deep enough.
Everyone who is in the public eye, as much as Peterson, will express different points of view over time -- even for same topic. He will be nailed on any variation from the version that a particular listener first heard.
I say he's leaving the world a better place if for no other reason, giving a bunch of fatherless men, something to strive towards. And he is constantly referring to Jesus as the ultimate man to emulate. That's not a bad thing.
I think he's just one of those people who, might always, be stuck in "I have to literally rationalize everything" mode. Some people are like that. Many people who are like that are bitter and angry. Lashing out at anything that questions their lack of faith. He's not like that.
I imagine he could be doing much worse things.
Great points and well said!
Jordan Peterson deserves great credit for maintaining his cool while talking to the deranged woke. Kudos to him for trying to defy the system from within.
Treat him as a guru? Heck no! I attempted to read the 12 Rules and could not finish. Each chapter started with a fairly reasonable, but banal, platitude but by the end he was gibbering like a character in an H.P. Lovecraft novel who had met the Old Gods. Not exactly uplifting.
"Well, listen here, Cthulhu! It's not entirely obvious to me that the stars are right whatsoever! I've read the Necronomicon and all of the literature; it's bloody clear, bucko! The Elder Sign is a... [folds hands, stares up and to the right for an uncomfortably long period of time] an epistemological, archetypal representation of the ego's Oedipal desire locked away deep in the sunken, non-Euclidian R'lyeh of the id. Jung understood the shadow self over Innsmouth and the intrinsic, symbolic power of the FISH PEOPLE. So... "
“Bloody clear, bucko.”!? Lol!!! I can hear it so clearly in Jordan’s voice! Well done!
Thank you! A well placed "bloody" is key to writing in Peterson's voice haha
I wrote some similarly goofy faux-speeches here in case you might get a kick out them, too, bucko! :D
https://honestlyre.substack.com/p/weekly-roundup-volume-5-71924?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=7y22h
Bloody brilliant
You win the Internet today.
Thank you kindly. All credit goes to the great Jordan Peterson and the Great Old Ones though. :)
really love how cartoon Cthulhu appears abashed by his beratement in this image
Thank you! I put way too much thought into cobbling together trash memes, so it means a lot when someone actually gets what I was going for. It took me longer than I care to admit to find a suitable sad ‘Thulhu pic and then smash it together with a suitably vituperative shot of JP.
Shout out to DeviantArt and TelephoneHome!
https://www.deviantart.com/telephonehome/art/Sad-Cthulhu-339783019
I also just realized some people may not be able to see the version of my comment your reference with the photo in it here: https://honestlyre.substack.com/p/weekly-roundup-volume-5-71924?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=7y22h
👏👏👏🤣
KA CHOW! #HardInTheMythos #FISHPEOPLE
It's ya boi🤣
Fantastic.
I turned on Peterson due to how he responded to the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearing and then to fraudvirus. When Kavanaugh was being accused of being a rapist during his Supreme Court hearings, Jordan Peterson — a man who claims to be an expert at resisting mob mentality and of the Soviet dissident Alexander Solzhenitzyn - tweeted “If confirmed Kavanaugh should step down.” When Canada rolled out the COVID vaccine mandates, instead of resisting Peterson gave in and got the shot, then later regretted it (“you’d have to kill me first” to get the booster, he tweeted). Then he cried publicly about it, multiple times.
I could've written a whole second half about his absurd theories of conservatism- but to be honest I just wanted to get this thought out since I hadn't seen anyone articulate it, but plenty of people have dunked on him for not really being on the Right.
Needless to say, you're right.
Have you checked the article on Current Affairs The Intellectuals We Deserve (If I remember the title correctly)? It would have saved you some time!
Tough crowd. ;-)
Seems Peterson is confused, and uncertain though he likes to sound certain. I've nothing to say but good luck to him, hope he reaches the next point in his journey. To many of us God is all those things he says but more; he is the Saviour, the Father and the Guide who sacrificed himself but more than that has always a helping hand to guide us through life. He's not a vague concept but a concrete one. One whom we need only read the Bible and pray the rosary to find.
No time at all for Peterson, not for a very long time. I’m glad you can see it.
Also, I'm very glad to see that you're reading Sanfedisti. He is a good man, a great writer, and a fast learner
I had a fair bit of time for Jordan Peterson, especially on psychology. He's probably a good gateway role model for the lost and wandering, but anyone who settles on JP as a final goal self-imposes a cap on my respect for them
Been saying this for years every time he comes up: he’s a virtuous pagan. Good man, has done a lot of good, but he’s not fully with us nor is he a leader for those already in the Church
Vox Day wrote the definitive intellectual take-down of Peterson years ago. Peterson is a narcissistic and deeply disturbed man who should not be a model for any man regardless of how many views his Biblical lectures get.
https://www.amazon.com/Jordanetics-Journey-Humanitys-Greatest-Thinker/dp/9527065690/
JP is a king gamma
I find it exceedingly frustrating that Peterson presents himself as a spokesperson for Christianity, and even goes on atheist shows to talk about it. Yet he regularly reduces faith into psychological/jungian jargon, and is not actually a Christian. All I can hear through it all is God/goodness/faith is just living up to his idealized view of liberalism.
I picked up Maps of Meaning when he was first becoming popular. It quickly became clear that the man was doing an "extended Ted Talk" of pop-Jungian psychology. He "sounded good" but you got no actual meaning out of him. Maps is terrible, and it really shows his weirdness off.
We've discussed Jordan Peterson many times before, but I never deeply grasped your critique of him. Thanks for writing this, I understand your position far better now, and I feel I have shifted towards it
“…he must be stopped. “
Was keen to read this but realised it is obviously another left wing tyrant wanting to ban and de platform people because they don’t like them.
Well,it depends on what you mean by 'Against'? And what you mean by 'Jordan'? And what you mean by 'Peterson'?It's no picnic, roughly speaking.
Great article. I would only add that I think this thread sums up this phenomenon very well :)
https://substack.com/@apolloslyre/note/c-62087532?utm_source=notes-share-action&r=7y22h
Why does he dress like he is flaunting his money but in a the must ugly way possible?
Like Peterson but as a human he can only handle so much exposure before his flaws emerge. As far as I can tell he is surprisingly decent for all that. Most people are pretending they were braver during COVID-19 than they really were, including me. I listen to his podcast to find out if he's found someone interesting to talk to :)
If you are interested in pursuing religion deeper you need a different guide... and he is not a deep political thinker. And taking dietary advice from him is silly.
I still want to keep an eye on him though. He trips over interesting ideas and people.
While I respect and appreciate a lot of his work, he has one major blind spot: he's a committed evolutionist. It poisons the foundation of his entire intellectual framework.
He's spent thousands of hours speaking and writing about psychology and related topics from the worldview of evolution and millions of years. His perceptive logic in other areas is shaded out by his complete failure to apply even the most basic critical thinking to the theory of evolution, a theory so mathematically and scientifically absurd it can't survive even the most cursory examination.
He seems to realize that pushing the beginning of time back 14 billion years with the Big Bang theory doesn't actually answer the question of how the universe began.
But he's so invested into the theory of evolution as an explanation for life, biology, and psychology, that he's unable to commit to a clean break with materialism and acknowledge God the Creator.
That's why he has to tiptoe around the edge of the metaphysical while invariably retreating back into the Enlightenment materialism at every challenge, even while claiming to acknowledge the real-world failure of Enlightenment materialism as a concept.
Very astute.